for that to be the case. if it came to that. from the fast-food guide how the country could be fast. >> one unions make a buck. whatat do o eyeywwaannt? >> $20 an hour. >> $30 of hour. >> i don't know you do not know anything about you. >> then i want to learn. that is our show.

>> with the chicago teachers union got the media attention but the battle to control the school will continue but the basic issue who has the power and who pays? it is more than taxpayers they say it is good day for track -- protect from arbitrary dismissal. is that true? no. all agreements make it hard to fire people and everyone be treated equally are bad for customers and employees and the union workers

themselves. but no luck with that argument to some workers. >> thousands of workers came here to say we need a second bill of rights. a living wage, full employment, start with lie with some workers are more effective and the rules mean the slackers cannot be fired? >> does that bother you this slacker gets paid when you don't? >> there are no slackers. >> we have to bring the person up to speed. >> do they all get up to speed? >> absolutely. >> who knew.

john till then has steadied the illinois teachers' union. i assume they are up to speed? >> it is a great irony of the again ceiling. people don't like that if the teacher is below par. but parents want to identify those teachers who are exceptional to be rewarded with merit pay. they want everybody -- everybody to be treated the same. >> they are spending 13,000 per student in chicago. >> exceptional teachers take those four kids would be greatly rewarded. but with the strike we just had they were fighting for the lack of accountability.

they don't want to be held accountable. there was no apparent present at the negotiating table. john: most parents want to do the right thing. the average wage is 40,000. chicago teachers? >> 71,000 according to the union and the school district says 76,009 including pension closer at 90% which is more than our tax -- architects or nurses. >> we have the shortest school day and a few list ness met minutes. >> they say they are overworked. >> a child k-12 will get about three years less destruction that is why the

teachers who are so well paid performed so poorly. for attend students don't graduate. john: they say you don't count the time away from school. they do but the bls still found the average public-school teacher works 36 point* five hours per week. >> is a short week the average stay is five hours and 45 minutes in chicago the charter schools work longer and graduate at 76% compared to the average of 56%. john: and those charter school teachers are not striking. >> and they are paid less. many left the chicago

public-school system to get in front of the classroom to make a difference. john: appearance 93% are rated superior excellent. >> where do you know, between 93 -- 100 and 93 are excellent? that is the same distortion. we know that some are exceptional. the union does not want to identify them and drag overall performance down. that is the real outrage. john: kennedy, i want to bring you into the discussion. she went to the big union rally with a more hostile reception. [laughter] your daughter is in the government's goal in moss angeles. -- los angeles.

>> all you want is the best possible classroom experience. there has to be some level of accountability. i would but it might evolve met helped to rate teachers. not testers in a performance what metric will you use? john: that includes your parents. >> but they were educators and my mom said the same thing. there are brilliant teachers out there who change lives. think of the best teacher that still has the impact. wouldn't be wonderful we could trust our children would have that experience? would it is all about the union thomas stranglehold, the pension, benefits, it makes teachers the enemy.

but they should be what makes children more successful. [applause] john: the union says it is not just about money. they don't think this system is fair to get students whose parents don't care and the teachers that struggle are unfairly judged. >> this is what is shameful. the unions blame the hard chips on the students. no question but the point* that the mayor was making you want to identify this teachers and move them farther and faster. that is what the union would tries to avoid. >> let's go back to the

union rally. john: i was pleased most protesters were simple. we had an argument that kennedy had a different experience maybe she proposed the employer bill of rights. >> i felt lonely. i drafted something to protect business under. >> to hire and fire. >> she spent more time than i did it was fine until she tried to get workers to sign her petition. >> data maybe enough as it is. >> why don't you want to build america?

john: that siren came from the union member at as a response to drown her out to. >> are you kidding me? [laughter] john: what was that about? they did not like the question? >> they did not want union members to think for themselves and their reps said to someone from fox business was there. john: until you raise the concept of employers have a right. >> my husband owns a small business. i am sympathetic to small business owners. [applause] teachers 36 hours per week my husband is up until 3:00 in the morning. to succeed takes loathsome

steel. that is why i am so sympathetic. john: by contrast metalworkers' act as if they own their jobs. all the you could not be fired forays age erase or disability but they say no religious display. >> and they do not like the way i dress. >> you are in my way. >> no no. john: a boss invest and he could be determined the wage that is the attitude. >> the idea of collective bargaining is so condescending that individuals cannot think for themselves or cannot negotiate for themselves. that is that insults.

john: but if they want to get together that is a freedom of association. go to the free-market on a saturday. most people do not want to be part of the you did public unions are bankrupting the states like california. like it or not. [applause] john: and illinois. >> $203 billion of unfunded that. >> is a race to the bottom. union members don't know that taxpayers can leave then they will not get it. but they are monopoly providers of services. as a monopoly provider of service why kids are not in school they take away power from tweeted people. that is what we have to

focus on. john: people don't strike outside of movie theaters. it is the monopoly. >> it shows who has the power. the mayor who has a the reputation to be tough was rolled over by the union and had to go to court. they are in the monopoly service provider. >> the leeway to have accountability is school choice to empower the parents. >> why is that such a dirty concept? >> it is not. we are for it, clout combat some workers use your tax money to do you did work full time. indexed.

john: we heard stories of government employees who retire with big pensions that would even when the government employees do work

, do not work for you. they work for the union. it is called officials time because the government allows the time. some employees to its full time. teeeighteen is upset and is introduced a bill. [applause] and. >> 1978, when jimmy carter social-service reform act allow federal workers to have official time that means the union can designate people to represent the group of employees. to represent them all day

long and get full salary within the department of defense. >> he is just doing what? >> mediation, arbitration, how sharp the pencils need to be. the number of paper clips. [laughter] john: they have work rules and. >> with the office of personnel management says we want you to report every year and the total amount of money that was exhausted. in $2,010,130,000,000. the total amount of wasted money so the unions cancer

around to negotiate for more money, more pension and/or health care. we don't take away the right to to collective bargaining. what do not view yen time. not my dime. [applause] >> this official time rolled preakness productivity and efficiency year after year and gives agencies and their employees to expeditiously utilize government and put. as well as bring closure.

>> it is government speak but you have two groups, labor and management negotiating for each other in -- for each other. john: the faa gets $200,000 per year working entirely odd official time. >> they just tried to decide what type of music should be played. john: is that true? you are making it up. >> we have researched this very carefully. john: the music? [laughter] not just a federal issue? the cities and states have similar rules. in phoenix arizona, the six police officers do nothing but union work.

look at governor walker rid wisconsin, governor christie in new jersey. [applause] and my former colleague four to know from puerto rico will address the problem at the state level but nothing at the federal level. john: congressmen phil gingrey. thank you. giving millions to politicians. this that make the uganda real boss? when we return. shabazz is how union control america and rob the blind. [ male announcer ] if it wasn't for a little thing called the computer, we might still be making mix tapes. find this. pause this. play this. eject this. write this. it's like the days before esurance express lane™. you had to find a bunch of documents

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john: is that rally in

philadelphia i was told unions should have more power. but they have plenty already. elizabeth factor and mallory factor rode a book. shadow bosses. rabin taxpayers blind." they say we are powerless. >> they are in government there in the military and national-security. >> now people have the right to choose increasingly then share shrank but in government it is bigger than ever. >> because those of the private sector go out of business. now 41% are unionized.

it has a very big effect that they feel government growth. john: they want bigger government. >> is easy the biggest scams perpetrated. money goes from the government to the union's board to the politicians and it is an amazing scam. >> and use day they are the true 1%. >> occupy wall street should have been in their headquarters. they may calf billion or another 1,325,000,000? it is astounding.

>> talk about income inequality they make 10 times the amount. john: those offices are elegant. i tried to go inside the teachers union offices but they are beautiful. >> you say they support a shadow causes? >> do no media matters? >> it dedicates itself to killing off blocks -- fox news. the national education association, but the rank-and-file members don't know that. state employees gained gained-- give the money, the

afl-cio but the teachers classified it as a public relations. john: it is for their side. media matters says more money for the union. >> the members don't know this. classified as public relations it is like administration and overhead. john: and they seem happy. >> if they could have the job without part of a. john: tea and wisconsin when they were forced to be a member they left like that. >> is important to give them a voice and a vote. john: the union is not pro worker but pro "shadowbosses". john: you talk about the

military i assume that is the exception. >> one-third of the military or civilian and 60% are already unionized there on military bases, filing grievances and be found a grievance union filed when the price of soda went from of $0.50 up at $0.55. >> and they had to fight that. and imagine the taxpayer dollars used. john: border patrol, immigration, fema, e ven the nasa scientist. >> even the peace corps. >> at home insecurity we found 62 people getting paid to do work do you know, what they do full-time? just union work.

homeland security. >> 40% of unionized. john: i am depressed their writing a book together and still set next to each other. elizabeth fact

john: [applause] everyone wants more pay. i negotiate with my boss over my salary, pension. government workers do that. but there negotiation is different because their boss is a politician who will be

long gone by the time the bill for medical care comes do. politicians make some money promises and as a result they are trillions of dollars in the hour bet. where will tomorrows politicians get the money? they will probably stiff workers. no more money left. my favorite expert is d from them manhattan institute. some have made smart changes and from utah we have governor herbert what did you do? >> we try to think long term. we move from the defined

benefits to the defined contribution. john: oh my gosh. don't say those words. [laughter] steve uses those all the time but i know that you are switching off. explain why it you talk about. john: defined benefit mean the politicians defined the benefit this is what we pay the teachers. >> the retirement income and guarantee benefit until you die. john: we promise. as opposed to? >> typically called 401(k).

you define the money in the account to have toward the retirement and build up over time. then the taxpayer liability ends. john: not like so secured year medicare, it is real money. money in your account. not subject to the whims of politicians. the other is the promise. and a good chance the money will not be there. >> hot air is a risk because courts state audacious aid is guaranteed but then the taxpayer has to make it up. because of the obligation that has not been followed through.

john: rhode island made a change and can workers get mad? >> there is concerned unless we make changes the system will go bankrupt and the new people could bankrupt the system. we have to keep promises to the defined benefit giving a choice. john: in utah the pension system was in such good shape you just had to make an new deal? >> to invest in funds

opposite great diminishment. we have to take corrective action that it did not become a boondoggle for the taxpayer. john: that you are the exception. >> absolutely. they do so because union leaders tell them for a 1k style plan does not work. 50% of teachers leave the profession within five years. if they had 401(k) they take all of it with them. with defined benefit they lose it to. this is perfect for people to stay in government. john: it is awful for the taxpayer and the unfunded liability for a trillion dollars up $2 trillion from

2008. >> 40 states have done reform but the liability keeps growing because most of the reform is superficial. >> union 58 to this to stand and mail. john: don't they want to their own pot of money? >> but if i was a worker in california after 30 years i could retire at 90% of my salary, which is what you get, i would get mad 227 private sector and the government? >> the difference is competition. 50% of private workers had

defined benefit the company is we're going bankrupt and had a huge cost. they switched. union tried to resist. but you could go out of business but the government does not. instead taxpayers are the backstop. john: fdr's said government employees to realize collective bargaining cannot be transplanted. of the very nature and purpose of government makes it impossible. fdr. >> but yet today you get political points? >> it is good principles. >> the public understands.

we're one at of seven states aaa bond rating one of only seven states. it makes a difference going forward looking for predictability, they want to know rebalance budgets. employees want to know. when selling point* is you can take money with you when you leave. it can be passed on to your children. >> rahm emanuel said he will not get people or businesses to move peer. what the government -- governor says of the competitiveness we will see pension liabilities john: thank you governor

herbert. steve malanga. i will

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john: we are back with your question and then the comments co-authors of the book "shadowbosses" elizabeth factor. mallory factor. and teen nine from the illinois policy institute. now from facebook : >> the answer is yes of violation of first amendment rights. we all believe in them. but we do have the right to to speak with only one group has the right to be listened to witches' government

employees union. nobody else has the right to speak. when they negotiate a contract they cannot walk away from the table. the politicians have to listen to them. it is part of a loss. >> the cycle of money from the union to the campaign and back what is the most effective play to break the cycle so we don't have "shadowbosses"? >> choice. in places where you're not allowed to use them members money for politics unless the members agree, then number drop significantly. there is the growing discontent the way their money is being used.

for political purposes that has nothing to do with representing them. the estimate is 1/3 where 60% actually represents. the rest goes to politics. john: going back to fdr you cannot have government unions the cut as they negotiate their own boss. he was right. now we are stop. >> besides voting what else can redo to push back against corruption and spending of our tax dollars? >> you have to push back at the local level. they put people out dogcatcher, a school board, a county supervisor

supervisor, the only way to get control of our government, we the people, up from big union is being involved day to day. we have to engage for our freedom. john: thank you for your bad news. coming up, my take on union coming up, my take on union and what it really does [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar

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john: do you remember the fuss made with kathleen sebelius machine for the boss reelection? she encouraged the audience the giants to continue obama should be president. it does day the boys cannot use their official jobs to defect the election and. the white house said it was mistaken to reimburse for travel executives. but people want her fired. political appointees do this all the time. kathleen sebelius is a hard core herb big government democrat. of course, she supports obama. is that illegal? the "wall street journal" reports the biggest union

givers is the air-traffic controllers. why? they start to give more money after obama gave him a contract with pay increases. more than other government workers. it is a coincidence i'm sure. they say they support the president because the administration and strong commitment to their safety. mitt romney must not the. bribery? it seems wrong unions paid to elect politicians who pay them back with your money. why isn't that a scammed? it is legal. crazy. legal. at that union demonstration that union built the

middle-class. they gave the workers the eight-hour day, at time off, higher pay. >> do like the five day work week? the weekend? they built the country. eight-hour day came from the 1930's. >> 1914 henry ford doubled wages and to compete gm and chrysler followed suit. 30 years before the uaw insisted. >> because they wanted to compete. >> we would still have the t's 30. >> she is wrong. workers' lives have them plantation proved because of free enterprise contracts helped but then they hurt even the union workers because the

rules slow-growth and that is what is best for workers. henry ford doubled wages then hired more. years later they get benefits for awhile but growth slowed then stopped. compared gm with toyota it created 15,000 jobs in america. over the same period gm lost 400,000. how was that good for workers? >> union members should have a right to unionize. but the downside is the opportunities lost because union rules limit the of entrepreneurs ability to